The two kingdoms of God doctrine found within dispensationalism pre-trib rapture theory incorporates Gnostic philosophy; namely, the heavenly destiny concept. 

Greetings. The Lord bless you.

Concerning the identity of the woman described in Revelation 12; there is a glaring omission found within the commonly held view that such represents the nation of Israel after the flesh. The main problem is that the woman is depicted as being in a glorified state, which of course means that she must be made up of those who are redeemed, as opposed to being made up of saved and unsaved alike. That of course requires that she be composed exclusively of the children of promise which in OT times would comprise those who were of faith sans those who were cut off because of unbelief.

Rom. 9:1-8 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called, That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

So we see that the glorified woman who gave birth to Jesus (Rev. 12:5) was composed of believing, redeemed Jews, and not simply Jews according to the flesh. So then national Israel itself is not even in view there, but rather the children of promise who were but a small number within that nation.

Rom. 9:27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Acts 3:18-23 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Mary was of faith, and a member of that glorified woman for she was definitely a believer, and so accepted that which was declared concerning her.

Luke 1:35-38 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. For with God nothing shall be impossible. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

According to the New Testament those who come to Christ are also children of the promise; and as Abraham's seed, they too become part of that same glorified woman.

Gal. 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal. 4:28-29 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

So the woman represents the seed of promise, both OT and NT saints, for both are the spiritual seed of Abraham, and that regardless of whether they are Jew or Gentile. So God's word reveals that the complete Church (The word 'church' simply means 'assembly'. (See: The Church in the Old Testament ) comprises the OT saints who are with the Lord, as well as the NT saints. The OT saints, being children of promise in Abraham's bosom, came in under the New Covenant when the Lord made such effectual. Note; that some even put in a brief appearance, to reveal the Lord's power to resurrect the dead.

Mat. 27:50-53 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

Now we know the identity of the woman who flees into the wilderness; She is made up of redeemed saints, both from among the Jews and the Gentiles, and not just some end time Jewish saints. All the redeemed Jews from the twelve tribes would of course be found within the Church, which explains why the twelve apostles will be judges over the twelve tribes of Israel.

Rev. 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Rev. 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Of necessity the woman in OT times must have been made up only of redeemed individuals, and likewise the woman under NT times can only be composed of the same, which would include not only the Jews who turn to the Lord, but also the Gentiles who are grafted into the good olive tree.

Rom. 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Eph. 2:11-22 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The promise was made to Israel, and those who received the Lord were redeemed, and the Gentiles who were later brought in became part of that same restored Israel. The Lord by way of the New Covenant was betrothed to Israel; that is to those therein who believed His word and the Gentiles were also blessed by being brought in as well and made members of that Bride, the assembly of the children of God, the Church.

Rom. 9:22-27 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

The woman representing saved individuals, and following an end time period of persecution, will be delivered and protected in the wilderness, and nourished up in preparation for the Lord's soon return. This would place that 3 1/2 year period of sanctuary in the latter half of the last week when the Lord focuses on those who haven't as yet come to Him. That would involve the two witnesses preaching, with the 144,000 children sealed, while judgments are being poured out on the wicked as a warning of the fast approaching wrath of God.

Rev. 12:9-17 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The woman being in glory must represent the children of promise, the spiritual seed of Abraham, and not the entire nation of Israel according to the flesh which included many who were never saved.

Rom. 9:6b-8 For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The saints of old being of faith, and having been held in store in Abraham's bosom, would been transferred under the New Covenant when the Lord made such effectual by way of the cross, otherwise none of them could be saved, for apart from the blood of Christ no one can be made holy in order to have 'eternal life'. That means that the saints of old are part of the Lord's Assembly (Church) in heaven along with all the NT saints that have passed on. Abraham is called the father of us all, according to faith, and that regardless of whether one is from Jewish or Gentile background. And note carefully that the Abrahamic covenant as regards land only applies to the seed of promise who are also the heirs of the heavenly blessings.

Rom. 4:13-17 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

The idea that the body of saints in heaven somehow exclude the OT saints cannot be supported from scripture, which idea is absurd in any case for they being redeemed would be part of the Lord's assembly. And since the Gentiles were brought in and made part of restored Israel they too would be part of the woman under NT times. The woman must be the seed of promise unto whom the New Covenant was delivered for those who rejected the Gospel, both Jew and Gentile, would have perished without Christ. In any case the first Christians being Jewish would be part of that woman, and the Gentiles later being grafted into that restored Israel because of their faith in Christ would be members as well. You cannot have unsaved people as members of that glorified woman and so she must now be the redeemed under the New Covenant.

Rom. 9:6-8 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom. 9:22-24 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

In addition the woman must be considered as being in a glorified state, for not only is she described as a 'great wonder', she is clothed with the sun, having the moon under her feet; and the crown upon her head, containing 12 stars, is a royal symbol.

The Lord spoke of the New Covenant as being a marriage agreement, and those Jews who accepted the Lord were restored to Him, and so Israel was married to the Lord. It was however only the children of promise therein who came into that blessing.

After the Gospel was preached to the Jews, it was only then that the Gentiles were brought in becoming members of restored Israel under the New Covenant. Of truth it is only by way of accepting Jesus that we are made members of that saved remnant and therefore grafted into the good olive tree.

As regards Joseph's dream it must be remembered that all those depicted in the dream were children of promise, and so that in addition would verify that the woman represents the promise seed.

The woman was the children of promise in OT times, and the woman likewise must be the children of promise in NT times. Since the redeemed are now both Jews and Gentiles, therefore both must be part of the woman in Revelation 12.

The saved in OT times were Jews, but the saved in NT times are both Jews and Gentiles and so the woman must now represent the Church which is composed of both. The Lord joined the saved Gentiles unto the saved remnant of Israel, and so the saved from the two groups cannot be considered separate anymore.

The woman of Revelation 12 is portrayed in a glorified state which rules out the unsaved being part of that woman. That woman cannot be Israel after the flesh for they for the most part did not and have not come to the Lord, and if they come to the Lord they would then be members of the saved remnant. When the Lord refers to all of Israel being saved, He is referring to the seed of promise, who are spiritual Israel in the Lord's sight, and that can't be otherwise for not all Jews after the flesh are saved.

The idea that the woman represents national Israel cannot be true for such was not true even in OT times for only the children of promise were counted for the seed. The view that the woman represents Israel after the flesh, in respect to the very end time, was founded on the fallacy that Israel after the flesh gave birth to Jesus when in fact it was the children of promise. Under the New Covenant both Jews and Gentiles are the seed of promise, and therefore the woman is none other than the Church.

Israel after the flesh wasn't in view at the beginning of Revelation 12, only the redeemed children of promise therein. The Jewish believers in NT times who came to the Lord became the children of promise, and since the Gentiles are grafted in as well, so are they. The woman was always the children of promise. There never was a biblical basis for maintaining that the woman represented Israel according to the flesh as opposed to being made up of just the redeemed portion therein.

According to God's word the unsaved were never considered part of Israel at all. Some man-made definition that is based on disregarding the definitions given in scripture can be of no use at all when it comes to comprehending God's word.

Rom. 9:6-8 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The woman is the seed of promise, and is the same woman throughout Revelation 12, however when the New Covenant came in the Gentiles who came to Christ were also included. The idea that the woman in glory could contain unsaved individuals contradicts the verses above plus many other passages. That perspective is not based on the New Testament, or for that matter the Old Testament, for it too maintains that unbelievers were cut off from the nation. There is absolutely no biblical basis for maintaining that the woman in Revelation 12 is natural Israel, for then you must flat out disregard the Lord who says that Israel is only made up of the children of promise.

While investigating the history of pre-trib development I uncovered an embarrassing fact regarding JN Darby's theory of eschatology. His view was founded upon a mystical interpretation of God's word, and not a literal one at all. JN Darby considered the man child of Revelation to be a corporate Christ made up of believers, (Like the modern Latter Rain cult.) and he based his 'rapture' belief almost exclusively upon the catching up of such to heaven. He also considered the woman to be natural Israel who then birthed his mystical corporate Christ.

Quote: "In Revelation 12: 10-12, it is said, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!" Now I do not take this as the rapture, because I believe it had taken place before, and is pointed out in the timeless rapture of the man-child for the church is one with Christ, and shall rule the nations as He." --JN Darby From:

Rapture of the Saints & the Character of the Jewish Remnant

There are common ideological (mystical - non-literal) roots found which connect pre-trib doctrine with Latter Rain doctrine because the author of the dispensationalist system itself held to the same mystical 'manchild corporate Christ' belief that later became the doctrinal basis for the modern Latter Rain cult movement. Actually about a century before Darby's time, Jane Lead, (1681-1704) false prophetess and witch, spoke of a many membered man-child in her mystic ramblings, and she employed that concept to operate her own corporate man-child cult, the "Philadelphian Society", in England. A 'corporate manchild' concept was a central factor in the original dispensationalist system of Bible interpretation, and it was not something that was just a curious add on either.

The 'rapture' belief itself was largely founded upon the concept of a corporate manchild being caught up. Just because modern dispensationalists, for the most part, have dropped that aspect of the original teaching does not change the fact that a 'raptured corporate manchild' belief played a major role in producing that eschatological paradigm in the first place.

The original pre-trib belief system had the OT saints participating in the pre-trib rapture, which doctrine placed those saints in the same resurrection as the NT saints. (A point that is now being questioned because it conflicts with the revised modern version of pre-trib doctrine.) The Jewish tribulation saints were once entirely isolated under pre-trib doctrine because only OT and NT saints were considered participants in the 'rapture'.

In respect to both OT saints and NT saints being resurrected at the same time I am closer to the original dispensationalist position than are modern dispensationalists. I of course include the tribulation saints in with the rest of the NT believers and have them all resurrected together at the Lord's return in glory at the 'last day'.

Furthermore the early pre-trib position had the 'rapture' placed at mid-week to make the beginning of the 'great tribulation' period coincide with the 'rapture', which is where I perceive the woman (Redeemed end time Jewish & Gentile NT saints.) as fleeing into the wilderness. By changing the original rapture belief from a mid-week resurrection to a transport into the wilderness, and including both Gentiles and the redeemed Jewish remnant, the problem is solved as to the Lord's provision for the saints during the final years where He pours out His judgments upon an unbelieving world.

The concept of the tribulation period taking in the entire last seven years was another revision to pre-trib doctrine which came in later on. To deny the viability of my position as regards OT and NT saints both participating in the same resurrection, and a deliverance of NT believers at mid-week, (Both matters which were part of the original pre-trib doctrine.) would mean that modern dispensationalists are now placed in the awkward position whereby they are actually found chopping away at the roots of their own tree in their efforts to refute the nearly two thousand year old orthodox eschatology as to a single resurrection for the just at Jesus' visible return at the 'last day'.

JN Darby believed himself to be commissioned from heaven to preach the Gospel, yet he maintained that the apostles were not.

Quote: "Further remark, the commission to the twelve was not from heaven, nor consequently immediately connecting with heaven, but from Galilee, and a commission to bring the nations into connection with an accepted remnant of Jews on earth - not to bring Jew and Gentile into the body in an ascended Christ, which was Paul's commission especially, preaching withal reconciliation from heaven to every creature under it." --JN Darby From:

Letters of JN Darby - Nov. 4, 1869
Elberfeld, Germany


That would explain why he believed, that he by way of revelation, was restoring truth to the Church that he conjectured had been lost soon after the apostles passed off the scene. The so called truth that he was 'restoring' was the result, according to him, of special revelations from God.

For dispensationalists, who boast of being literal, it is hardly appropriate to lean so heavily upon Darby's theory, and so subscribe to concepts invented by him, and especially so when he has been exposed as using a purely mystical rendition of scripture to form the basis for his system. If Origen is condemned for his allegorical-mystical use of scripture concerning Israel, how then can JN Darby be considered sound when he also did the same as regards the Church?

Quote: "Darby defended his dispensational interpretation on two grounds. First, he claimed others had not studied the scripture correctly. ... "much obscurity appears to me to have arisen from a want of simple attention to Scripture."

Second, Darby believed the Lord had revealed it to him personally. "For my part, if I were bound to receive all that has been said by the Millenarians, I would reject the whole system, but their views and statements weigh with me not one feather. But this doesn't hinder me from enquiring by the teaching of the same spirit. What God has with infinite graciousness revealed to me concerning his dealing with the Church."

The second part of his quote concerning Paul's commission makes it clear that JN Darby viewed the Church as something primarily Gentile in nature that evolved out of Paul's ministry. As such JN Darby has the apostles preaching an earthly kingdom message while he has Paul preaching a heavenly Gospel. JN Darby appears to have been leaning heavily into Marcion's Gnostic philosophy.

To forward his two kingdoms of God theory; one earthly and another heavenly, he even ended up denying that the apostles had been commissioned from heaven. Dispensationalists have accepted the idea that there are two kingdoms of God supposing such to be derived from scripture, however JN Darby's peculiar ideas concerning an earthly kingdom revolving around the apostles reveal that he saw the Gospel as having not properly come into being until Paul was called to preach it.

That is not the only strange idea that JN Darby had. He believed that Jesus had to be punished by reason of being the King of Israel to therefore maintain that the cross was not entirely about atonement. He taught that later on in his ministry, which heresy caused quite a stir back then. Some pastors within the Brethren movement departed from Darby over that, and others were ejected by Darby from the movement when they tried to withstand him on that matter. The Brethren held to many strange ideas back then, some of which have survived within their religious system, while others faded into the background.

The woman in Revelation 12, apart from the idea of dual destinies for the Church and Israel, would be considered the Bride of Christ with the saved from OT times being part of the Assembly (Church) in heaven. That is: all the seed of promise make up that Bride, and not only those who were saved after the New Covenant was made effectual. The saints of old would have had the benefits of the cross applied to them as well for they were not only looking forward to a heavenly kingdom, but were trusting the Lord to save them. That would make them members of the Church in heaven upon the Lord's having opened up the way through the cross.

Any other position is somewhat awkward, to say the least, in that unless the benefits of the cross are applied to those saints of old they could not be saved at all. And when were the benefits of the cross made effectual as regards them if not immediately upon Jesus having said, "It is finished."? The New Testament reveals that Abraham was looking forward to a heavenly kingdom being established on the earth. There is no concept of two kingdoms of God found within scripture.

The scriptures teach that Jesus will establish 'THE' kingdom of God on the earth when He returns and that later 'THAT' same kingdom is transferred to the new heavens and the new earth.

Dan. 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Dan. 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Here it is revealed that the 'kingdom' established by Jesus on the earth is not temporary, (although the Millennial period is) but is the heavenly kingdom of God placed on this earth midst the carnality of man.

The idea of there being two kingdoms of God, which gives rise to the dual destiny theory, and which makes natural Israel (rather than just the promised seed) out to be the woman of Revelation 12, is without merit in scripture and was postulated to support pre-trib doctrine. The scriptures teach that the kingdom of God, as regards Abraham, is the same as the kingdom of heaven. Indeed, the terms kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God are used interchangeably.

Luke 13:23-20 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Mat. 8:11-12 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Heb. 11:8-16 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

The New Testament doesn't teach an incorporeal resurrection however the early Gnostics taught an eternal incorporeal existence in the hereafter, and the Catholic Church borrowed that and so made 'pure spirit bodies' the eternal state of believers. That idea was based on the Gnostic philosophy that matter itself was evil, (The word of God teaches no such thing.) and therefore incompatible with a blessed afterlife. That concept actually makes a resurrection totally unnecessary in that those who passed on already have a spirit and soul. The bodies that believers arise in will of course be glorified, but immaterial; no!

1 Cor. 15:49-54 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

The reference to flesh and blood not inheriting the kingdom of God is a reference to those not born of the Spirit of God being unable to be saved.

John 3:3-7 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Believers will be raised up in real glorified bodies, and not in some ghostly form. The idea that the OT saints are raised to mortality (material bodies) while NT saints are raised as angels (immaterial bodies) is pure invention created to accommodate the unscriptural idea that there are two kingdoms of God. All believers OT and NT are raised up in the same type of glorified body at the same time to rule with Christ, on this earth. The kingdom of God is going to be established on this earth and then later transported to the new heavens and new earth.

The heavenly destiny concept is a form of mysticism that gained ascendency during the Dark Ages, and continued on into the Reformation surviving along with Nicolaitanism, and pedobaptism; that old mainstay of the "Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth." The concept of some immaterial heaven being the eternal abode of Christians is not found anywhere in God's word. Abraham's hope was of being saved and raised up to live in a new world wherein righteous prevailed, and the Lord's enemies were defeated; not of simply acquiring some real estate. The New Covenant was the means of many being brought into that same hope, not a new hope altogether within some entirely different kingdom of God. The Lord while He was on the earth was also in heaven.

John 3:12-13 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

So we see that believers can be in heaven while physically on the earth, for heaven is of the Spirit, and has to do with being filled with the Spirit of God, so as to be in communion with God who is in heaven. The idea of a heavenly destiny for believers as separate from any material world contradicts much scripture for not only is the Lord returning to set up His kingdom on the earth, He thereafter dwells with believers on a new earth within a new heaven.

That Catholic mysticism concerning an eternal abode for believers in some immaterial heaven, that arose through her fornicating with pagan (Gnostic) ideology, contradicts God's word in that Jesus is returning to dwell with resurrected saints on this earth; and furthermore He will continue forever thereafter among the saints on the new earth. The idea of believers dwelling in some separate ethereal heaven while Jesus is on the earth would have them forever separated from the Lord according to the two kingdoms of God fabrication. However the kingdom of God, that Abraham was looking forward to is one and the same as the kingdom of heaven.

The woman has a crown on her head, making her a queen, and who is her husband if not Jesus? The glorification of the woman in Revelation 12 as depicted in scripture does not depend on the celestial bodies employed, (And what other symbols could be employed to denote glorification?) but the fact that she is royalty. That cannot be said for natural Israel after the flesh for scripture reveals that such does not in that sense even have a husband. The children of promise however back in OT times, because of faith, would have had a saving relationship with the Lord, and would be a holy people.

Gal. 4:21-31 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Because the children of promise were Jewish in OT times that does not equate to the woman being Israel after the flesh, for such also contained many who were not saved. While Israel was depicted as a woman; and indeed as being married to the Lord; the woman as Israel after the flesh only was divorced when Jesus came into the world. So we see that natural Israel itself was not married to the Lord then, and so such could not possibly be a queen at that time. Indeed the New Covenant which came in afterward through the cross was (and is) the means of restoring that breach.

Rom. 9:22-28 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Jesus came into the world, not only through the nation of Israel after the flesh, but through a believing remnant within Israel, and indeed the lineage of the Lord as regards Mary's forefathers were believers and not just Jews after the flesh. The seed of promise is carefully documented in the OT and I cannot find an unbeliever within that lineage.

Rom. 9:6-8 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

The unsaved were never considered true Jews in the Lord's sight in any case; He only accepted as His people those who truly accepted Him as their God. And Jesus said:

John 15:20-25 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

The unbelieving Jews being cut off from their respective tribes would not have been included as regards depicting any glorified state. Furthermore the twelve tribes are also represented within the present Church, and like then; as regards saved individuals, their numbers are still small. That will change however as the end times wind down, and the remaining members (children of promise) from among the Jews are brought in in the years leading up to the Lord's return, and the resurrection of the just.

Rom. 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

The Holy scriptures reveal that the children of Abraham, according to the flesh, will turn to the Lord in large numbers in the days just preceding the Lord's return. It is also revealed that the Gentiles will be the means of reaching them with the Gospel. See: Verses below. Satan appears to be doing all he can to prevent the Gospel from being preached to them. I.E. Claiming that they are somehow saved apart from the Gospel, or maintaining that they will be saved after the Lord returns.

I expect this major ingathering into the Church to take place at mid-week when the man of sin desecrates the temple, and demands to be worshipped as God. (Many Jews will recognize the man of sin as the antichrist that they were warned about.) I also expect the existing Church at mid-week to be transported into the wilderness at that time.

But first, World War 3, (The Second Seal) which started back at 9/11, will escalate and the man of sin will arise in the confusion surrounding such, with a time of world wide persecution against Christians to follow. See: Matthew 24. (The world most likely blaming Christians for starting WW 3 - GW Bush, Illuminati, is after all, masquerading as a born again Christian.)

Rom. 11:25-32 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Zec. 12:2-14 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness. And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God. In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem. The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah. In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

Dan. 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

So far the facts concerning the woman of Revelation 12 indicate that she is indeed the children of promise as opposed to being simply the nation of Israel after the flesh. She is in a glorified state denoting that she is made up of believers. She is depicted as a queen and therefore married to the Lord, whereas the nation of Israel according to the flesh was not so when Jesus was born into the world, she having been put away due to adultery.

All the symbols properly accord with the status of the promised seed who were in a saving relationship with the Lord because of faith. The scriptures reveal that Mary's forefathers were all believers making them of course all children of promise. The scriptures reveal that only the children of promise are counted for the seed, (See: Rom. 9:8) which means that the unbelieving portion of the Jews were never considered part of Israel in any case, having been cut off because of unbelief.

Provided the moon represents Satan, (a reasonable explanation) that would reveal her as also being victorious over sin, such being under her feet. The scriptures reveal that not only did the Lord come into the world through the nation of Israel, but that He specifically came into the world through a believing remnant within Israel who are none other than the 'children of promise'. To say that He came into the world through the nation of Israel after the flesh is therefore only a partial truth, the scriptures certifying that He came into the world by way of the children of promise which were the redeemed portion of that nation.

With the Gentiles through faith also becoming 'children of promise', being joined to the believing remnant, (grafted into the good olive tree) by reason of accepting Jesus as Saviour, that means that the woman must now be the NT Church, and therefore the Bride of Christ. With Jews from the twelve tribes being converted by God's grace that would place them within the Church and explain why the twelve apostles are set up as judges over those twelve tribes.

Because the benefits of the cross must have been applied as regards the OT saints in order for them to be saved, they too must be part of the Assembly of saints (Church) that is with the Lord. Abraham's hope was that of salvation not just some real estate. The great divide that developed over time between the saints of old and New Covenant believers was not found among the early Christians who perceived themselves as having come into the blessings whose fulness was before prophesied.

Joel 2:26-32 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This position also fits in complete accord with the Lord's words:

John 10:14-18 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Which makes the promised seed from among the Jews into one fold along with the promised seed taken out from among the Gentiles. That of course means that Jews in the end time are saved the exact same way that Jews were saved when the Gospel first went out.

When the Gospel first went out many Jews came to the Lord, then the Gospel also went out also unto the Gentiles, and the scriptures also show that many Jews will turn to the Lord as their eyes are opened to the Gospel in the end time, to the effect that the Gospel comes full circle back to gather into the kingdom of God many of Abraham's seed according to the flesh which completes the Great Commission in time for the Lord's return and the resurrection of the just.

So here we have all the promised seed (believers) being resurrected at the last day, which is exactly what Jesus said. (See. Dan. 12:13 & John 6:39-44) The Church during the final years, rather than being removed from the earth, is transported to a wilderness sanctuary, away from the face of the serpent, in order to prepare for the Lord's return.

The 'blessed hope' is the Lord's glorious return, and our gathering unto Him; there is no statement in scripture to the effect that He even returns prior to that. I don't understand what the big commotion is all about for Jesus is already with us now in Spirit, and so we have cause to rejoice continually while patiently awaiting His bodily return to set up His heavenly kingdom of God on the earth.

Mat. 28:17-20 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mat. 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Titus 2:11-14 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Glory to Jesus!

In the early NT Church the hope of believers was to share in the same blessedness that Abraham was looking forward to; namely the resurrection of the saints to take part in a heavenly kingdom on the earth.

Heb. 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Dan. 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

See: Early Church Doctrine -- Tim Warner

Note carefully that the Lord sets up His kingdom on the earth, and that that same kingdom is eternal; it does not pass away at the end of the Millennium, but is transferred thereafter to the new earth.

The concept of Christians spending eternity in some separate heavenly kingdom of God apart from being physically in the same place with Jesus during the Millennium is based on Gnostic philosophy which esteemed a material world to be incompatible with their concept of a pure spirit existence in the hereafter. The Gnostics contrary to God's word held that matter itself was evil, (No! It is not matter, but sin that is evil.) and therefore incompatible with a truly blessed kingdom of God.

The Catholic Church early on adopted that Gnostic concept, and as it turned out that philosophy also ended up being picked up by true believers, and therefore carried forward during the Reformation, and so we now have a pagan concept thoroughly incorporated into mainstream Christian thought. That has the effect of creating a major distortion which prevents believers from comprehending parts of the Bible and the true relationship between the seed of promise in OT times, and the seed of promise in NT times.

The Gnostics (E.G. Marcion) also believed that the God of the OT was different from the God of the New Testament and so they perceived the saints of old to be an inferior type of saint as compared to those in NT times. That philosophy also helped to later place an artificial division between believers in OT times, and believers in NT times which had the effect of separating those saved back then, because of faith, from those saved by faith since the cross. That is one source of the idea that NT believers are somehow a superior form of saint in a different class altogether. However scripture reveals that Abraham was saved by way of faith, and that was before the nation of Israel even existed, and before the law (Which doesn't save anyone in any case.) was given.

According to the early Church witness and Holy scripture the blessed hope was the resurrection, and the establishment of the kingdom of heaven on the earth, which was the same hope that Abraham held to. The hope of NT believers and the saints of old was one and the same. The New Testament makes it plain that salvation by faith preceded the giving forth of the law, continued in effect when such was brought in, and would continue down to this day, and beyond.

All the children of promise are part of the Lord's Assembly and no where does the Lord say that there would be a first class type of saint, and a second class type of saint. True, the appointments and rewards would differ according to the Lord's eternal purpose, yet all the saints will stand perfected before God by reason of His blood that makes one holy.

The Holy scriptures do not indicate that a new 'first class' type of saint would come into existence, but rather; that saints, with the New Covenant being made effectual, would receive a greater blessing than those who went before.

1 Pet. 1:9-12 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Heb. 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Scripture reveals that they being the children of promise were also part of the Lord's Assembly (Church) awaiting the bringing in of the rest of the saints in order to make up the full number that would compose the heavenly Jerusalem which is also called the Bride. (Rev. 21:9-10)

The scriptures do not reveal anything as regards to any immaterial ethereal type of heaven as being the eternal abode of the saints, but rather that the inheritance of the seed of promise is reserved with God in heaven.

1 Pet. 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Heb. 11:13-16 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Heb. 12:22-24 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

We were made members of the heavenly Jerusalem (The Bride) that Abraham was looking forward unto, and seeing that the Lord prepared it for them also how then can they be considered somehow separate?

The scriptures also reveal that the seed of promise back in OT times were indeed born again, even though they obviously could not as yet come into the blessings that accord with the New Covenant being made effectual. There is no verse in God's word to the effect that people couldn't be born of God back then; yet that concept is commonly believed nevertheless. However Holy scripture must actually be ignored in order to maintain that aspect of the illusionary division placed between the 'saved by faith' back then and the 'saved by faith' today. Indeed the following verse is now rendered almost incomprehensible to most because of that longstanding and popular, but fallacious assumption that people were only born of God in NT times.

Eph. 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Rom. 9:8b They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The scriptures reveal absolutely nothing to the effect that the seed of promise back in OT times were not born of God, quite the opposite actually; but somehow the word of God, (The verse - Eph. 4:28 above, especially.) which says they were, is routinely dismissed in favour of maintaining that longstanding illusion. The difference between the saints of old and NT saints is that while they were born of God, (being children of promise) to await the kingdom of God, (Also called the kingdom of heaven in scripture.) those now born of God have immediate access because Jesus opened up the way through the cross.

The OT saints however being in Abraham's bosom went before into the kingdom of God, as soon as the Lord opened up the way, and became members of the Lord's Assembly in heaven where they along with all the NT saints, who later passed on, are awaiting the resurrection of the just in order to rule with Christ on the earth, as a prelude to the transfer of that heavenly kingdom to the new earth.

Rev. 5:8-10 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Because they were the seed of promise, having passed on in faith, they are of course children of God, and therefore also heirs of the kingdom of heaven. The OT saints and NT saints who passed on are all part of the exact same Assembly (Church) that is with the Lord. To deny such is to maintain that none of the OT saints are even saved, including Abraham. Yet Abraham had to be born of God for otherwise he could not even enter the kingdom of God.

John 3:3b Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

The Lord has revealed in scripture that He was both upon the earth and in heaven at the same time.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Which reveals that the children of God can be in the kingdom of heaven while upon the earth, and indeed those born of God have already been spiritually translated into that kingdom by reason of their being restored to God.

Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Col. 1:12-14 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Because of the dualist Gnostic system, whereby the kingdom of God ended up split into two parts; to have one of the two considered material in nature, while the other part was conjectured as being composed of pure spirit; the true integrated kingdom of God, (That Abraham was looking forward to.) as erroneously divided up, created serious absurdities which totally contradict the word of God.

The Lord Jesus makes it very plain that believers will be with Him forever, and so lets look at where the Lord is during the Millennium, and again after such, when the new earth is created.

Rev. 20:4-5 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Rev. 21:1-3 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

The Lord in both cases is resident in a material kingdom: At first upon this earth during the Millennium, and afterward on a totally recreated earth. Believers in order to be with the Lord in every sense would of necessity have to be on the earth in order to be with the Lord, but under the dualist system they somehow end up in another separate pure spirit kingdom of God while Jesus is upon the material earth, He having brought the real heavenly kingdom with Him to the earth. The 'heavenly destiny' concept manufactured by the "Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth" using Gnostic philosophy is actually a profound form of mysticism that has believers imagining that they end up in a different kingdom of heaven than the one that Jesus establishes on the earth.

The terms kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven are used interchangeably in scripture (See the two parallel accounts presented below.) and so to make two kingdoms; a material one called the kingdom of God, (For the OT saints) and another called the kingdom of heaven (For NT saints) is to produce a second mystical kingdom that never has and never will exist as regards the eternal dwelling place of NT saints.

Luke 13:23-20 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Mat. 8:11-12 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The saints that passed on (Both OT and NT.) are awaiting their resurrection; however the imagined separate pure spirit eternal abode for saints would make a bodily resurrection totally unnecessary, for why would souls with Jesus need to be bodily resurrected at all in order to live eternally in a pure spirit heaven?

That mysticism which was derived from Gnosticism makes a bodily resurrection entirely pointless. They of course never envisioned a blessed hereafter within a heavenly kingdom of God that incorporated matter; for to them matter itself was evil, and so they couldn't have any in their mystic concept of the eternal abode of the saints.

See: Origins of the Heavenly Destiny Concept

The Gnostics used to teach that the coming kingdom was some ethereal place and not like the heavenly kingdom on earth that Abraham was looking forward to. The early Christians all believed that the Lord was coming back to establish His, one and only, kingdom on the earth. That is, they thought the same way that Abraham did, but the Gnostic philosophers claimed that the coming kingdom was ethereal because they said that matter itself was evil, and so God couldn't use any in His kingdom for the real saints. With that mysticism being spread the concept of the prophesied heavenly kingdom being simply some separate immaterial pure spirit abode for Christians took off among the Catholics and continued right over into the Reformation. There were other things as well, like baptizing babies, and churchy Nicolaitian thinking that they got from the old harlot. But if you check the scriptures carefully you will see that the Lord is bringing heaven with Him and setting up right here when He returns.

Daniel 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

The kingdom that the Lord brings in will outlast the Millennium and so it is not temporary at all, but is the kingdom of God that Abraham and the early Christians were looking for. The idea that the kingdom of God would be without real substance was an old heresy that the early Christians fought against because it was pagan mysticism, and they were looking for the Lord to return and establish a real tangible kingdom on the earth. Many are teaching today that the Jews get one kingdom on the earth while the Church gets another. Nonsense! God's word says that the heavenly kingdom is coming here.

The coming kingdom of God, that He sets up on the earth, will include every one of the seed of promise as resurrected so that the nation of Israel and the Church are found combined as one nation. All the children of God from all time, both Jew and Gentile, will be part of the exact same nation that is thereafter transferred to the new earth after the Millennium. Note that the book of Revelation, which depicts the Bride as heavenly Jerusalem, has the twelve tribes represented within it along with the twelve apostles.

Rev. 21:9-14 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Rev. 21:22-27 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

The Lord has the twelve tribes, that is those therein who are saved, as part of His Assembly, (The Church.) so how then do some imagine that some saved Jews, (Even Abraham) are somehow excluded from such?

Dan. 12:1-3 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.


Praise the Lord!


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This page was created on the 14th. of Aug. 2006


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